Pusha T and Malice Are Determined to Find Their Prize (Exclusive)

Malice and Pusha T are the same duo they were nearly a quarter century ago when they released their first album as Clipse, 2002’s Lord Willin’. They rap with conviction, mean each word they spit on stage and have proven to be capable of writing rhymes that spark conversation, most recently through July’s Let God Sort Em Out.

But if you ask Malice, the elder of the two Thornton brothers, how he’d compare the Clipse of yesterday to the Clipse of today, the word “seasoned” comes to mind.

“It was a lot of rebellion. It was a lot of angst. It was raw energy because you just know you’re doing something that you love,” Malice, born Gene Thornton Jr., tells PEOPLE of Clipse’s origins. “Here we are 25 years later, I feel like you get the same energy, but there’s a wisdom that accompanies it as well.”

“You think a little bit more about the mark you’re leaving, what people are going to remember you for, what’s going to stick with them and just really being true to who you are,” Malice, 53, adds. “That’s who we have always been. We always share our life in real time, what’s going on now as we did then. It’s just the maturity that would be the major difference.”

Maturing is also knowing that what you put out in the universe is what you receive. And right now, the Thornton brothers are making it clear they’re after Grammy awards. The hip-hop heavyweights — despite consistently finding themselves listed among other greats and being nominated for one Grammy together as a unit (Justin Timberlake’s “Like I Love You” in 2003) and six separately for Pusha’s solo career — have yet to win the trophy.

So, in proper Clipse fashion, they’re letting the world know exactly what they’re after, chopping it up with PEOPLE for a brief moment about their first album in nearly 16 years, the “passion” they feel in Tyler, the Creator’s music, honoring their late parents and the accolade they’re determined to add to their legacy. “We’ve seen the stigma of it being a young man’s sport, but nah, we never believed in that,” Malice says of himself and Pusha, real name Terrence Thornton.

He adds, “And you’ve heard it before. Other genres, they take it well into their 70s and better. The Rolling Stones and KISS and Aerosmith and these guys, they do what they do. And it should be the same for hip-hop, as long as you’re creative and innovative and groundbreaking.”

“We’re showing those that came before us and those that come after us that it can be done and it should be done.”

Read Clipse’s conversation with PEOPLE below, lightly edited for length and clarity. 

PEOPLE: You had this 16-year period between ‘Til the Casket Drops and today. Was there always a feeling deep down that there was more work to be done, that Clipse had another one in store?

Malice: Yeah, but I always knew that we could. I just, for me, in my conviction, I had to do some self-evaluating and really understand who I am at my core. And I knew once I understood and once I laid hold to that person, then and only then I [thought] it would be beneficial to share art that meant something.

I’m just talking about as far as I was concerned. I knew I had more to leave with people than what I was leaving at the time. Even back then, I was selling myself short. So I knew once I figured it out, then I was going to be ready to come back.

I’d imagine you’re excited to be taking this music to Europe on the next leg of the tour. When you sit with an album like this, does your confidence in the material — as you continue to perform it, see fans react to it — does that confidence grow?

Malice: The faith in the music is all that I had faith in. We’ve had a lot of label issues. It just wouldn’t be a Clipse story if it wasn’t some kind of label drama. But the thing that helps me to remain steadfast is knowing once we cut through all of the red tape, that the music is going to speak for itself.

I used to say this back when, Hell Hath No Fury days, Lord Willin’, ‘Till the Casket. The fans, when I see the fans singing along, they remind me of that burst of energy that I had when I figured out a line — that excitement. But then after you write the record, you may forget it. But when you see them recite it, [you’re like,] ‘Oh yeah, that’s how I felt when I wrote it.’ So it’s definitely a reminder.

I was at the [Tyler, the Creator] Chromakopia show at Madison Square Garden. He gave this speech about Clipse and said that you were his “DNA.” Can you hear it in the music when you inspire a guy like Tyler — whether it’s the delivery, the presence, the passion? What connects those inspired by Clipse?

Pusha-T: I think, of course, the passion. Tyler’s passion, he speaks about it a lot when it comes to Clipse, when it comes to the Star Trak movement and just what he was inspired by. I can hear it in production, I can hear it. And just overall, his overall passion for music. It shows, man.

Tyler is a real student of the game and I think it pays off even beyond the Star Trak movement and beyond Clipse and everything. You can tell that it pays off because he’s just a student of rap, student of rap and history. And we happen to be a part of a very influential time for him.

The Grammys are on a lot of minds. I read the conversation you and Pharrell had with Billboard. You’ve acknowledged awards before, and now we have “POV (“I topped all these lists, where’s my prize at?”). Has your perspective of the Grammys changed?

Pusha-T: No, I don’t think my perspective has changed about Grammys or awards at all. To me, this is part of the story. When you think about it, when it comes to street hip-hop specifically, I don’t think I’ve seen an award for this level and this intricate and this specific level of street hip-hop since [Jay-Z’s] Vol. 2… Hard Knock Life. And he didn’t even show up for that one.

So it’s like, man, this is a real thing. This is where I always want to see rap. I want to see street hip-hop recognized on every platform. You can recognize it on all of the biggest stages. To me, it’s just a full-circle moment. This is where rap started. Rap started in the streets and this was like the voice of the streets. And it should be recognized on the biggest platforms. We’ve seen people be recognized for hip-hop that wasn’t necessarily hip-hop, you know what I’m saying?

The Grammys, they’ve gotten it right. They’ve gotten it right. They’ve had the right cast of characters, and it’s just a good thing to see.

Does it feel deeper than Clipse?

Malice: Yeah, it’s definitely deeper than Clipse. We just hold up the banner for street hip-hop. We hold up the banner for just being purist. And I also want to mention that I think we’re pretty much — dare I say — the first to show that there is no ceiling. No age limit on this thing that we do. You can take it as far as your creativity allows you to take it.

You’re continuing to pave the way. We have this performance at the Vatican, you’re the first hip-hop act to do so. How’d you feel after you walked off?

Malice: I will say that I felt recognized. It was a moment, a world stage, the Vatican, to be able to perform our record with John Legend [“The Birds Don’t Sing”]. And it really meant something.

The fact that my brother and I are back together and this is the level that we get to perform on, I love everything about it. I love the articulation, I love the intellect, I love the sophistication. The way that we have matured in this definitely set a bar. And I’m glad to be able to contribute to hip-hop in that way.

A big part of this record and the conversation surrounding it is the way that you two have promoted it. You shared a quote with Complex about music journalism being “really good” for you. Do you feel like people were craving that approach when you mapped out this album cycle? Did that method just always click for Clipse?

Pusha-T: Well, I think we chose this method out of actually missing hip-hop journalism. We’ve been such fans of hip-hop journalism and just fans of hip-hop, and it’s like, that’s a big part of it. We wanted to recreate the talk. We wanted to recreate it like, ‘Oh man, what did they say about it in said magazine?’ You know what I’m saying? And look at the magazine and tell the writer he ain’t s— because he didn’t review it to our liking. We wanted to have that banter. We wanted to try to do things that could spark the nostalgia of that.

And so when you see the rollout, it was about us talking to real journalists, people who had real music opinions and people who could just create that chatter. That’s what it was about. That’s what we were looking for. We were looking for it.

Malice: Absolutely. And it also speaks to the product that we were sharing and how we felt about it. We didn’t just put out music and then run somewhere and hide and just see what people say. We wanted to get in front of the journalists, allow them to ask questions, allow them to pick it apart if they felt it necessary. We weren’t running from anything.

Pusha-T: This was just another avenue that we felt was untapped because a lot of people don’t let their music get reviewed. A lot of people don’t sit down and interview out of fear and out of… you don’t have to really deal with opinions. You don’t have to deal with that if you don’t want to. So I feel like, to mimic what Malice said, it definitely was a way to show how we felt and how strongly we felt about the music.

And it’s greatly appreciated. I want to take you to this one line on this album, “playing real life Contra” (“E.B.I.T.D.A.”). There’s a Luigi reference on this record too, on “POV.” Did you grow up gaming and how much of those experiences bleed through the music?

Pusha-T: Totally grew up playing all of those games. And man, it’s just about being colorful, just about being colorful in the raps and hopefully things get said that touch a nerve, you know what I’m saying? Touch a nerve or spark a nostalgia or just make people know that we are actually in this painting. We’re really painting, bro. And just really trying to entertain. You got to dig deep, man. You got to dig deep. And sometimes it’s as simple as game references. Other times it gets deep.

Malice: It’ll take you anywhere. When you’re sitting there and you’re writing, it’ll take you back to childhood. It’ll take you back to — like you mentioned, Brenton — playing those games. A lot of times it’s luck of the draw. It’s just being creative and the things that you can recall from your memory. That line, “Grew up playing real life Contra,” put me in the mindset, even inspired [by] “I’m trapped in a deadly video game with just one man,” from the Wu-Tang [GZA’s “I Gotcha Back”]. It’s just being colorful and creative.

We also have these visuals you just dropped. “The Birds Don’t Sing” video was a beautiful tribute. Fans saw a bit of that on tour as well. Pharrell said in your interview with Billboard that this Grammy would be for your parents. I’m curious as to if you feel the same.

Malice: Yeah, my parents. When I look at the song now and I look at what it means to people and the emotions that it brings out of people, I can’t even count how many times we have heard that we’ve given language to people who were grieving and they just couldn’t express it. They were just dealing. And then when they hear the song, they’re like, “That’s exactly how I feel.”

The way I view it is that our parents are still giving. They’re not even on this earth anymore, and they’re still giving. And I just think it’s a beautiful thing. So it would be a definite honor and tribute to our parents.

How important is manifestation and speaking things into existence in the Clipse story?

Malice: [Laughs]. I’m laughing because I always find a way to give scripture. But the Bible is very clear when it says, “As a man thinketh [in his heart], so is he.” As you think, you are. If you’re down and out, if you think you’re downtrodden, then you will be. And if you think positive about yourself and affirm yourself and you have good things to say.

The Bible also says, “The power of life and death is in the tongue…” So I think manifestation is very important in that regard. So I definitely think about what I say and think of what I think about myself and what I think of others.

Clipse’s Let God Sort Em Out is now available.